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Re: Follow the Firstborn
Posted By: Ron Hughes In Response To: Follow the Firstborn (Charles Pope)
Date: Tuesday, 19 September 2006, at 9:23 a.m.
Charles you wrote;
"Within the royal family this practice partly compenstated for habitual incest, because the firstborn was usually redeemed rather than literally sacrificed to the gods. However, Biblical accounts indicate that the firstborn was also generally recognized as the legal heir of the girl's future husband. There is a dynastic element to this custom that I hadn't fully recognized before. Specifically, the Great King could use this custom to advantage by imposing his right as "Godfather" to produce the firstborn child of high-ranking women. When these women were married, the firstborn sons would be established as heirs and thereby the male lineage of the Great King was grafted onto that of rival royal males and other high-ranking men."
It is almost inescapable that we also see a process almost exactly like you describe above during the Middle Ages. It has been called "first rights", or something similar. In essence, it was the right of the "Lord" of a fiefdom, which could be a Duke, or some other royal rank, etc., that had almost absolute power over his possessions. And the possessions included all of the people who lived in his fiefdom! The main point is that this royal personage had the "right" to "bed" or "sleep" (copulate) with a young woman engaged to be married.
This, of course, had both benefits and disadvantages to the "Lord." Thus if a child was conceived via this union then the "Lord" was or could have been considered as the father, thus giving the child some rights to the fiefdom. Whether such a system bred loyalty or the desire to overthrow the father is another matter.
But, in the case discussed here "Follow the Firstborn", we can understand that any sort of revolution or overthow might began with the murder of the firstborn children as a method of eliminating any other claimants to the throne or titles!
Certainly is it possible that both Jesus and Moses had something in common with each other if all of the words written about their similarities are in anyway correct.
Thus, considering that Herod also had "first rights" then it is totally conceivable that fearing a revolt, that he might order the killing of all young males that might be his children!
In the same vein, it would not be unusual for Moses, who had the strongest claim to the throne, might not order or plan a revolution by also killing all of the other first born of the "Lord!"
Ron
It is funny that this right called I think "primogeniture", should make its way into the Dark and Middle Ages in Europe. But, with all of the connections you have made, maybe it is not strange?
Regards,
Ron
- Agnus Dei
tim -- Monday, 4 September 2006, at 7:22 p.m.- Opus Muses
Charles Pope -- Thursday, 7 September 2006, at 4:52 p.m.- ubi fumus, ibi ignis
tim -- Thursday, 7 September 2006, at 6:26 p.m.- Veni, Vidi, Vici
Charles Pope -- Friday, 8 September 2006, at 3:40 p.m.- Follow the money!
tim -- Friday, 8 September 2006, at 5:07 p.m.- Herod's Money
Charles Pope -- Friday, 8 September 2006, at 8:12 p.m.- I came to a fork in the road, so I took it.
tim -- Wednesday, 13 September 2006, at 9:43 p.m.- Israel and Phoenicia
Helge Harbard -- Thursday, 14 September 2006, at 6:42 a.m.- Re: Israel and Phoenicia
tim -- Thursday, 14 September 2006, at 3:52 p.m.- more on mithraism viz. early christianity
tim -- Thursday, 14 September 2006, at 7:35 p.m.- Invented "Israeliteness"?
Helge Harbard -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 5:11 a.m.- Solomon, the Egyptian.
tim -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 7:01 a.m.- ...Or Solomon the Judaized Egyptian?
Helge Harbard -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 11:09 a.m.- Re: ...Or Solomon the Judaized Egyptian?
tim -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 11:31 a.m. - Re: ...Or Solomon the Judaized Egyptian?
Heru -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 12:29 p.m. - Solomon or Amenhotep III
Charles Pope -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 6:42 p.m.- Re: Solomon or Amenhotep III
Titan -- Saturday, 16 September 2006, at 10:00 p.m.- Solon and Solomon
Charles Pope -- Saturday, 23 September 2006, at 7:08 p.m.- Solon, Solomon and peace
Titan -- Sunday, 24 September 2006, at 7:25 p.m.- Solon, Solomon and Shalom
Charles Pope -- Sunday, 24 September 2006, at 9:33 p.m.
- Solon, Solomon and Shalom
- Solon, Solomon and peace
- Solon and Solomon
- The Great Prince Of Peace
Helge Harbard -- Wednesday, 20 September 2006, at 2:51 a.m.
- Re: Solomon or Amenhotep III
- Re: ...Or Solomon the Judaized Egyptian?
- ...Or Solomon the Judaized Egyptian?
- Re: Invented "Israeliteness"?
Pete -- Monday, 18 September 2006, at 10:15 a.m.- Mystic Origins
Helge Harbard -- Friday, 22 September 2006, at 4:21 a.m.- Re: Mystic Origins
Pete -- Monday, 25 September 2006, at 9:31 a.m.
- Re: Mystic Origins
- Mystic Origins
- (Message Deleted by Poster)
H. Butler -- Tuesday, 19 September 2006, at 8:54 p.m.
- Solomon, the Egyptian.
- Invented "Israeliteness"?
- Re: Israel and Phoenicia
Ron -- Thursday, 14 September 2006, at 8:11 p.m.
- more on mithraism viz. early christianity
- Re: More on Helge's Arsacid question
tim -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 10:58 a.m.- I found the original
tim -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 11:15 a.m. - Phraataces and Muses
Charles Pope -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 6:35 p.m.- Phraataces and Phillip
Charles Pope -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 9:47 p.m. - Phraataces and Malthace
Charles Pope -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 10:28 p.m.- Parthia and the Tribe of Issachar
Charles Pope -- Saturday, 16 September 2006, at 9:28 p.m.- Re: Parthia, Gaul and Mauritania?
Ron -- Sunday, 17 September 2006, at 8:55 a.m.- Mauritania (a.k.a. Numibia)
Charles Pope -- Sunday, 17 September 2006, at 8:20 p.m.- Re: Mauritania (a.k.a. Numibia)
Ron -- Monday, 18 September 2006, at 8:43 p.m.- More on Mauritania
Charles Pope -- Monday, 18 September 2006, at 9:18 p.m.
- More on Mauritania
- Re: Mauritania (a.k.a. Numibia)
- Mauritania (a.k.a. Numibia)
- Re: Parthia, Gaul and Mauritania?
- Parthia and the Tribe of Issachar
- Phraataces and Phillip
- I found the original
- Re: Israel and Phoenicia
- Israel and Phoenicia
- I came to a fork in the road, so I took it.
- Follow the Firstborn
Charles Pope -- Saturday, 9 September 2006, at 10:24 a.m.- Re: Follow the Firstborn
Ron Hughes -- Tuesday, 19 September 2006, at 9:23 a.m.- Re: Follow the Firstborn
Ronald L. Hughes -- Friday, 6 October 2006, at 5:47 p.m.- Queenly Prerogative
Charles Pope -- Friday, 6 October 2006, at 7:55 p.m.
- Queenly Prerogative
- Re: Follow the Firstborn
- Re: Follow the Firstborn
- Alexander Helios, King of Parthia
Charles Pope -- Saturday, 9 September 2006, at 10:37 a.m. - Juba Jabber
Charles Pope -- Sunday, 10 September 2006, at 1:31 p.m.- Juba II, Father of "Prince Ptolemy"
Charles Pope -- Saturday, 16 September 2006, at 9:46 p.m. - Re: Juba Jabber
Ronald L. Hughes -- Wednesday, 24 January 2007, at 8:22 a.m.
- Juba II, Father of "Prince Ptolemy"
- Rawlinson-free
tim -- Saturday, 16 September 2006, at 10:53 a.m.
- Herod's Money
- Follow the money!
- Socrates and Shakespeare
Charles Pope -- Tuesday, 17 October 2006, at 5:08 p.m.- Plethon / Pletho and Plato?
Ronald Hughes -- Wednesday, 18 October 2006, at 6:13 a.m. - Re: Socrates and Shakespeare
tim -- Wednesday, 18 October 2006, at 1:27 p.m.
- Plethon / Pletho and Plato?
- Veni, Vidi, Vici
- ubi fumus, ibi ignis
- Opus Muses
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© Charles N. Pope, US Library of Congress. All rights reserved.
