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Veni, Vidi, Vici
Posted By: Charles Pope In Response To: ubi fumus, ibi ignis (tim)
Date: Friday, 8 September 2006, at 3:40 p.m.
Hi Tim,
Having read Caesar's Messiah, I can now better appreciate little touches in the Gospels such as the Roman military man Longinus piercing Jesus in the side. The informed ancient reader would have instantly realized that a comparison was being made between the Jesus martyred in Jerusalem and Julius Caesar earlier martyred by another Longinus in Rome on the Ides of March (festival day of Osiris). It was said, in each case, that "it is good that one man die for the people".
By the way, I was at the University of Washington bookstore on Wednesday and came across the following title:
"Victim of the Muses: Poet as Scapegoat ..."
www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/067401958X/ref=s9_asin_more/104-9716132-6626367
I would like to pull together a new chapter or two on the Hasmonean connection, if not a whole new book. (Joe likes the idea of calling it "Herod's Messiah" or something to that effect!) But first, there seems to be a few more identifications that can be teased from the tangled web of royal intrigue.
For example, it is likely that John Hyrcanus became king of Parthia under the name of Artabanus II (Artabanus before being equated with generic Hasmonean "John"). The later Artabanus III may in fact have been the same as Herodian Phillip II ("John the Baptist").
The two kings that follow Artabanus II are more elusive, those being Mithradates II and Orodes I. Possibly they were Hasmoneans, but more likely they were other scions of the Ptolemaic royal house, such as the brothers Ptolemy X Alexander and Ptolemy IX Soter.
With the next two Parthian kings, Phraates III and Orodes II, things get even more interesting. They are contemporary with Ptolemy XII (Neos Dionysos) and his brother, who were recalled from exile at the court of Mithradates VI of Pontus (and where J.C. uttered his famous words, veni, vidi, vici)! This Mithradates, if memory serves me, is the same one that gave Rome so much trouble. Also, Orodes II was the king that defeated and killed the Triumvr Crassus. However, circa 38 BC, Orodes II was murdered by his "son" Phraates IV (a.k.a. Herod the Great?) and Rome henceforth had little resistance in Egypt, Palestine, or Parthia.
Just prior to this coup the Roman consul Appius had traveled with little success to Armenia to demand the extradition of Mithradates VI. He was offered gifts from Tigranes king of Armenia, but not the man he was looking for. Appius was said to only accept a single cup from Tigranes, possibly an allusion to the "cup of Benjamin", and it appears as a symbol of the position of Appius within the greater family heirarchy.
I strongly suspect that the family of Appius, the dominant Roman clan, had already began to exercise the right of primogeniture over other royal families of the Near East by this time, including the Ptolemies. And they may have adopted other heirs to Near Eastern thrones into the Claudian family, as you suggest. The Romans were big on adoption.
~Charles
- Agnus Dei
tim -- Monday, 4 September 2006, at 7:22 p.m.- Opus Muses
Charles Pope -- Thursday, 7 September 2006, at 4:52 p.m.- ubi fumus, ibi ignis
tim -- Thursday, 7 September 2006, at 6:26 p.m.- Veni, Vidi, Vici
Charles Pope -- Friday, 8 September 2006, at 3:40 p.m.- Follow the money!
tim -- Friday, 8 September 2006, at 5:07 p.m.- Herod's Money
Charles Pope -- Friday, 8 September 2006, at 8:12 p.m.- I came to a fork in the road, so I took it.
tim -- Wednesday, 13 September 2006, at 9:43 p.m.- Israel and Phoenicia
Helge Harbard -- Thursday, 14 September 2006, at 6:42 a.m.- Re: Israel and Phoenicia
tim -- Thursday, 14 September 2006, at 3:52 p.m.- more on mithraism viz. early christianity
tim -- Thursday, 14 September 2006, at 7:35 p.m.- Invented "Israeliteness"?
Helge Harbard -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 5:11 a.m.- Solomon, the Egyptian.
tim -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 7:01 a.m.- ...Or Solomon the Judaized Egyptian?
Helge Harbard -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 11:09 a.m.- Re: ...Or Solomon the Judaized Egyptian?
tim -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 11:31 a.m. - Re: ...Or Solomon the Judaized Egyptian?
Heru -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 12:29 p.m. - Solomon or Amenhotep III
Charles Pope -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 6:42 p.m.- Re: Solomon or Amenhotep III
Titan -- Saturday, 16 September 2006, at 10:00 p.m.- Solon and Solomon
Charles Pope -- Saturday, 23 September 2006, at 7:08 p.m.- Solon, Solomon and peace
Titan -- Sunday, 24 September 2006, at 7:25 p.m.- Solon, Solomon and Shalom
Charles Pope -- Sunday, 24 September 2006, at 9:33 p.m.
- Solon, Solomon and Shalom
- Solon, Solomon and peace
- Solon and Solomon
- The Great Prince Of Peace
Helge Harbard -- Wednesday, 20 September 2006, at 2:51 a.m.
- Re: Solomon or Amenhotep III
- Re: ...Or Solomon the Judaized Egyptian?
- ...Or Solomon the Judaized Egyptian?
- Re: Invented "Israeliteness"?
Pete -- Monday, 18 September 2006, at 10:15 a.m.- Mystic Origins
Helge Harbard -- Friday, 22 September 2006, at 4:21 a.m.- Re: Mystic Origins
Pete -- Monday, 25 September 2006, at 9:31 a.m.
- Re: Mystic Origins
- Mystic Origins
- (Message Deleted by Poster)
H. Butler -- Tuesday, 19 September 2006, at 8:54 p.m.
- Solomon, the Egyptian.
- Invented "Israeliteness"?
- Re: Israel and Phoenicia
Ron -- Thursday, 14 September 2006, at 8:11 p.m.
- more on mithraism viz. early christianity
- Re: More on Helge's Arsacid question
tim -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 10:58 a.m.- I found the original
tim -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 11:15 a.m. - Phraataces and Muses
Charles Pope -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 6:35 p.m.- Phraataces and Phillip
Charles Pope -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 9:47 p.m. - Phraataces and Malthace
Charles Pope -- Friday, 15 September 2006, at 10:28 p.m.- Parthia and the Tribe of Issachar
Charles Pope -- Saturday, 16 September 2006, at 9:28 p.m.- Re: Parthia, Gaul and Mauritania?
Ron -- Sunday, 17 September 2006, at 8:55 a.m.- Mauritania (a.k.a. Numibia)
Charles Pope -- Sunday, 17 September 2006, at 8:20 p.m.- Re: Mauritania (a.k.a. Numibia)
Ron -- Monday, 18 September 2006, at 8:43 p.m.- More on Mauritania
Charles Pope -- Monday, 18 September 2006, at 9:18 p.m.
- More on Mauritania
- Re: Mauritania (a.k.a. Numibia)
- Mauritania (a.k.a. Numibia)
- Re: Parthia, Gaul and Mauritania?
- Parthia and the Tribe of Issachar
- Phraataces and Phillip
- I found the original
- Re: Israel and Phoenicia
- Israel and Phoenicia
- I came to a fork in the road, so I took it.
- Follow the Firstborn
Charles Pope -- Saturday, 9 September 2006, at 10:24 a.m.- Re: Follow the Firstborn
Ron Hughes -- Tuesday, 19 September 2006, at 9:23 a.m.- Re: Follow the Firstborn
Ronald L. Hughes -- Friday, 6 October 2006, at 5:47 p.m.- Queenly Prerogative
Charles Pope -- Friday, 6 October 2006, at 7:55 p.m.
- Queenly Prerogative
- Re: Follow the Firstborn
- Re: Follow the Firstborn
- Alexander Helios, King of Parthia
Charles Pope -- Saturday, 9 September 2006, at 10:37 a.m. - Juba Jabber
Charles Pope -- Sunday, 10 September 2006, at 1:31 p.m.- Juba II, Father of "Prince Ptolemy"
Charles Pope -- Saturday, 16 September 2006, at 9:46 p.m. - Re: Juba Jabber
Ronald L. Hughes -- Wednesday, 24 January 2007, at 8:22 a.m.
- Juba II, Father of "Prince Ptolemy"
- Rawlinson-free
tim -- Saturday, 16 September 2006, at 10:53 a.m.
- Herod's Money
- Follow the money!
- Socrates and Shakespeare
Charles Pope -- Tuesday, 17 October 2006, at 5:08 p.m.- Plethon / Pletho and Plato?
Ronald Hughes -- Wednesday, 18 October 2006, at 6:13 a.m. - Re: Socrates and Shakespeare
tim -- Wednesday, 18 October 2006, at 1:27 p.m.
- Plethon / Pletho and Plato?
- Veni, Vidi, Vici
- ubi fumus, ibi ignis
- Opus Muses
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© Charles N. Pope, US Library of Congress. All rights reserved.
