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Julie said it, but was it true?
In Response To: charles said it ()

Maybe we can at least consider that Julius Caesar, was but a sex-less person? That is, what do we really know about the religious thinking of those days (whenever those days were?)

Perhaps Caesar (warlord) was more like the great leader of the army of Eastern Rome who was reportedly called, from Wikipedia;

"Flavius Belisarius (505(?) 565) was one of the greatest generals of the Byzantine Empire and one of the most acclaimed generals in history. He was instrumental to Emperor Justinian I's ambitious project of reconquering much of the Western Roman Empire, which had been lost just under a century previously."

Belisarius' conquests and generalship can easily be compared to that of Caesar. He was even offered the crown of Rome, which he declined! But, what most people do not know, is that he was emasculated! That is he was a enuch! Or at least his successor was?

From Wikipedia;

"Narses (also sometimes written Nerses) (478-573) was with Belisarius, one of the great generals in the service of the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian I during the so-called "Reconquest" that took place during Justinian's reign.

Narses was a Romanized Armenian from the noble Kamsarakan family, which claimed descent from the royal Arsacid dynasty. He spent most of his life as a relatively unimportant eunuch in the palace of the emperors in Constantinople.

He was 74 in 552, when the ever-suspicious Justinian recalled Belisarius from his campaign against the Ostrogoths in Italy and replaced him with Narses. Despite his age, he proved to be as energetic and skilled as his predecessor, though history has generally credited Belisarius with the greater ability. He launched another campaign against the Ostrogoths, finally defeating their formidable King Baduila at the Battle of Taginae. In 553 he defeated the remnants of the Ostrogoth army at the Battle of Mons Lactarius. In 554 he drove the Franks and Alamanni, who had come to help the Ostrogoths, back over the Alps. Eventually, the surviving Ostrogoths surrendered to him and Italy was restored to the empire.

Narses remained in Italy as its prefect (governor) but his administration was unpopular. After Justinian's death, his nephew Justin II removed him as prefect and demanded he return to Constantinople. Narses relinquished his post, but refused to leave Italy instead retiring to a villa near Naples.

The last years of his life are somewhat clouded in suspicion. Many sources at the time say Narses secretly encouraged the invasion of Italy by the Lombards in 568, in revenge for Justin II's taking away his position. Still, Narses, then 90, offered his services to the emperor again. He was turned down. By the time Narses died, more than half of Italy had fallen into Lombard hands."

From Wikipedia disambiguation comes others who had this name;

"Narses or Nerses was the Hellenized form of the Parthian Nerseh, which appears to have been a fairly common name in the Eastern Mediterranean and Near East in late antiquity. The name derives from a minor Zoroastrian divinity, Nairyosangha, "he of manly utterance," a Hermes-like figure. The name was also used as a constituent by Sassanids in a number of complex names Mihr-nerseh, Par-nerseh etc. The name is still in use among Armenians as Nerses, as well as a surname Nersisyan. Modern short forms of the name are Neso or Nesik. Prominent bearers of the name include:

A Sassanid King of Persia who reigned 292-303 and whose name is usually written in English as Narseh.

Narsieh, son of Prince Pirooz and grandson of Yazdgerd III, the last king of the Sassanid empire.

Five Armenian patriarchs (Catholic Encyclopedia article):

Saint Narses, Catholicos of Armenia, also known as Nerses the Great (d. 373).

Nerses II, Catholicos of Armenia, (d. 557).

Nerses III, Catholicos of Armenia, also known as Nerses the Builder (d. 661).

Saint Nerses IV, Catholicos of Cilicia, also known Nerses the Graceful (d. 1167).

Nerses V, Catholicos of Armenia (d. 1857).

Nerses of Lambron, Archbishop of Tarsus

Narses (478-573), a eunuch who served as a general under the Emperor Justinian I and who led the reconquest of Italy.

Narses, a general who served under the Emperor Maurice at the end of the sixth century and was executed by Phocas.

Let's look at another of the above Narses?

Also from Wikipedia;

"Narses was a Byzantine general active during the reigns of the emperors Maurice and Phocas in the late sixth and early seventh centuries. He commanded the army in Mesopotamia under Maurice; when Phocas overthrew Maurice and seized the throne, Narses refused to recognize the usurper. Besieged by Phocas' troops in the city of Edessa, Narses called for the Persian emperor Khosrau II to aid him and was rescued by the Persian forces. He attempted to salvage the situation with a diplomatic mission but was burned alive in Constantinople by Phocas' government after having been promised safety."

No indication of him being a eunuch here but he served under Maurice. Could Maurice (meaning Moor) be of help?

From; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_%28emperor%29

"Flavius Mauricius Tiberius Augustus, Maurice or Maurikios (*539 in Arabissus/Cappadocia, 602 in Constantinople), known in English as Maurice, was a Byzantine Emperor who ruled from 582-602. He was one of the most important rulers of the early 'Byzantine' era, whose reign was troubled by almost unending wars on all frontiers.

In the west, he organized the threatened Byzantine dominions in Italy and Africa into exarchates, ruled by military governors or exarchs, being mentioned in 584 and 591 respectively. The exarchs had more or less complete military and civilian competences. This was remarkable due to the usual separation of civilian and military competences in that era. By founding the exarchate of Ravenna, Maurice managed to slow down the Lombard advance in Italy, if not to halt it. In 597, an ailing Maurice wrote his last will, in which he described his ideas of governing the Empire. His eldest son, Theodosius, would be a ruler of the East from Constantinople, the second one, Tiberius, of the West with the capital in Rome. Some historians believe that two youngest sons were supposed to gain Illiricum and North Africa. But as he intended to maintain unity of the Empire, this idea bears a strong similarity with the Tetrarchy of Diocletian, given the fact that Maurice also maintained claims on the former western provinces now ruled by Germanic tribes. Maurice's violent death thwarted these plans however."

I also propose that you read about another Narses here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Narses

We might easily suppose that Belisauris was a Caesar or the Caesar before he was changed, or had a religious conversion? Certainly it is written that some historians feel that Caesar took over religious duties of Rome, or that he at least became a wearer of the flamen!

Again, from Wikipedia;

"The three flamines maiores were required to be patricians.

The Flamen Dialis oversaw the cult of Jupiter, the sky deity and ruler of the gods.

The Flamen Martialis oversaw the cult of Mars, the god of war, leading public rites on the days sacred to Mars. The sacred spears of Mars were ritually shaken by the Flamen Martialis when the legions were preparing for war.

The Flamen Quirinalis oversaw the cult of Quirinus, who presided over organized Roman social life and was related to the peaceful aspect of Mars. The Flamen Quirinalis led public rites on the days sacred to Quirinus.

A fourth flamen maior was added after 44 BC dedicated to Julius Caesar. When the imperial cult got underway, further flamines were appointed to worship the divine Roman emperors."

Wether or not Caesar became a "flaman" is open to conjecture, but certainly there may have been some vow or act that one might have to take to become one? Could the vow be one of chastity? It is reported that Caesar had "no legitimate children" and thus "adopted Octavian!" (Augustus) Note, even Popes could adopt children!

According to http://sights.seindal.dk/sight/766_Julius_Caesar.html

"Caesar was also appointed flamen dialis (the chief priest of Jupiter) by Cinna. The flamen dialis was submitted to a strict programme of religious duties, including a restriction on leaving Rome for more than one night in a row, which effectively prevented the flamen dialis from pursuing a normal political career. Maybe little was expected of Caesar due to the undistinguished recent history of his family.

Marius died in 86, and Cinna was deposed by supporters of Sulla, who took control of Rome. Sulla annulled most of the decisions of Marius and Cinna, including the nomination of Caesar as flamen dialis, but Caesar's life was spared, unlike many other supporters of Marius. Caesar never accepted the cancellation of his nomination as flamen dialis, and neither did he divorce Cornelia as a result of the changing political tides."

Further research might be done by any of you for a more complete understanding of the above.

But, we also have to consider that Rome and the Roman army in particular, was at that time supposedly under a good deal of influence from the religion of Mithra!

"The name Mithridates (more accurately, Mithradates) is the Hellenized form of the Indo-Aryan Mithra-Datt, which means "One given by Mithra". Mithra is the Indo-Aryan sun-god and Datt (given by) derives from the Proto-Indo-European root da ("to give"). That name was born by a large number of kings, soldiers and statesmen in the Iranian dynasty of the Parthians and mostly by the royalty and nobility in Asia Minor:"

Accordingly, it is interesting that Mythraism began in the first century CE, and this just so happens to be the time of J. Caesar!

And to add further confusion to the above, it seems that the ancient temple to Mithra in the vicinity of Rome, just so happens to be located under St. Peters Basilica!

The lives of J. Caesar and J. Christ, have also been compared by a number of noted writers as have the commonalities of Jesus and Mithra!

Note, flamen's apex' were worn by priests of Mithra also!

See Wikipedia;

"The official costume of a flamen, of great antiquity, was a hat called an apex and a heavy woollen cloak called a laena. The laena was a double-thick wool cloak with a fringed edge, and was worn over the flamen's toga with a clasp holding it around his throat. (Maurus Servius Honoratus, Commentary on the Aeneid of Vergil iv.262; Cicero Brutus 57). The apex was a leather skull-cap with a chin-strap and a point of olive wood on its top, like a spindle, with a little fluff of wool at the base of the spindle (Servius Commentary on the Aeneid of Vergil ii.683, viii.664, x.270)."

Also from Wiki:

"The apex was a cap worn by the flamines and salii at Rome. The essential part of the apex, to which alone the name properly belonged, was a pointed piece of olive-wood, the base of which was surrounded with a lock of wool. This was worn on the top of the head, and was held there either by fillets only, or, as was more commonly the case, was also fastened by means of two strings or bands, which were called apicula (Festus, s.v.), or offendices (Festus, s.v.), though the latter word is also interpreted to mean a kind of button, by which the strings were fastened under the chin (cf. Serv. ad Virg. Aen. ii.683, viii.664, x.270).

The flamines were forbidden by law to go into public, or even into the open air without the apex (Gellius x.15), and hence we find the expression of alicui apicem dialem imponere used as equivalent to the appointment of a Flamen Dialis (Livy vi.41). Sulpicius was deprived of the priesthood, only because the apex fell from his head whilst he was sacrificing (Valerius Maximus i.1 5).

Dionysius of Halicarnassus (ii.70) describes the cap as being of a conical form. On ancient monuments we see it round as well as conical.

The Albogalerus, or albus galerus was a white cap worn by the flamen dialis, made of the skin of a white victim sacrificed to Jupiter, and had the apex fastened to it by means of an olive-twig (Festus, s.v. albogalerus; Gell. x.15).

From apex was formed the epithet apicatus, applied to the flamen dialis by Ovid (Fast. iii.197).

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex_%28hat%29""

And from; http://psychicinvestigator.com/Relig/Mithras.htm

The My(i)thratic cap, or "apex", also known as the "Phrygian cap!" Also feel free to look up "pileus!"

For more on the "Phrygian Cap / Bonnet" see; "Should we give a Frig about the Phrygians?" at;

http://www.revisedhistory.org/forum/showthread.aspx?m=107806 And;

http://www.revisedhistory.org/forum/showthread.aspx?m=96283 And;

http://www.revisedhistory.org/forum/showthread.aspx?m=96395

And don't forget Dagon?

http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/bp/890/dagon.html

Which also happens to show how papal / ponitfex attire mimics other attire.

Freemen? / Friesland? /Flaymen? / Pileus? / Phrygian Bonnet / Lady Liberty? / French Revolution? / J. Christ / J. Caesar?, etc.

Regards,

Aga-mem-Ron (the eighth!)